Jennifer
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Post by Jennifer on Dec 15, 2009 6:11:21 GMT -8
There's an enormous amount of work going into the Celestial language (Homidin) but I'd like to request that writers focusing on Terrapyres in Prime Time and beyond also take a long look at language. Outside of reading future-set books like "Feed" and "Virtual Death," a scientific approach (read: a realistic approach) to the evolution of language -- how people will actually speak in Prime Time and beyond -- can be applied if you consider the work being done by linguist and social biologist Mark Pagel. Studying 87 different languages, Pagel came to pinpoint 200 specific words that existed in all 87 languages and had existed for 9000+ years. Amazingly, five of these 200 remained unchanged in *all* the languages. These "divine" words or "eternal" words are: I two five who three Now, take a moment to seriously consider that. It really is very mysterious and divine. I wonder why these words? I am just delighted by this. Over the last 9000 years, 80 of the 87 languages also kept their words for: four we name tongue what how where But only 60 kept their words for: nose dog water seed heart snow bone day egg feather star tooth mother root there The list goes on. On the other end of the spectrum, there are words that are *incredibly* changeable, that "mutate" (linguist jargon) at a comparatively fast rate. Some of these (from among the 200) are: fat snake child wing grass husband sky cloud rope back bite think fight laugh fear kill play burn cold because if old bad We can say lots of things about the social evolution of the human species but the evolution of our lexicon is something concrete and artful all at once. By late-Prime Time, how many of our everyday words will be completely replaced? Gee, makes me want to go tweet about it  |
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Sunshine
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I dare you.
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Post by Sunshine on Dec 16, 2009 6:33:49 GMT -8
Hey grrl... I think you scared 'em all off I do think you have a powerful point but I won't just blather. Because... Check this, you're my peep and all that, cha? I want to do you a solid and I know how swank we work cuz of "Carousel." We have nerve together so I don't just want to hand you a stone and be heavy with nothing. So know I'm real when I say: If a post-Prime Time Terrapyre is laying down the law and we're catching every drift? Then some writer ain't eating enough Calder. (Great point, Jennifer. Thank you for taking the time and energy to share this. You lend a maturity and a strong foundation to this universe every single time you post. I lurked about the hardware/wetware issue and was fascinated but this is brilliant and worthy of serious contemplation. Thank you, my friend.) Summer |
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Cris
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Homidin: teh sc?o, teh torox, teh antha.
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Post by Cris on Dec 16, 2009 20:13:42 GMT -8
Summer, Cha, grrl. Great to see your white on black again. Maybe you should be our PPT consultant? I ate my Calder, but my feet ain't on the street. Cris |
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Jennifer
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Post by Jennifer on Dec 16, 2009 22:54:31 GMT -8
LOL! Oh, you two  Crazy grrls both. Summer, I couldn't agree more. I may not "speak street" but I know very well that the PPT lexicon featured in the Crusade Battle Anthology, for instance, is "lite" in terms of proper lexicon and language mutations. I think that's acceptable for an anthology but if someone presented a mid- or late-PT or PPT novel? I would request (as brand manager) that Cris require a stricter realism with the vocabulary. Jennifer |
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Sunshine
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I dare you.
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Post by Sunshine on Dec 17, 2009 17:07:36 GMT -8
That's great to hear, Jennifer. All your posts in the last few days seem to be making it very clear how seriously you take this brand. I, for one, am impressed and pleased. The refinement and higher bar makes me hopeful of the brands longevity. Cris! You made me laugh. Thank you I'm not as fully versed (fully schooled?) as the PPT expert you have living right with you but thank you for the compliment! |
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Cris
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Homidin: teh sc?o, teh torox, teh antha.
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Post by Cris on Dec 17, 2009 21:55:34 GMT -8
I think the three of us will rock the "Linguistic Terrapyre" --wouldn't that be a great name for a bar?
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Jennifer
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Post by Jennifer on Dec 17, 2009 22:13:17 GMT -8
It would be very interesting to explore not just the changing "street" lexicon of late-PT and PPT but also the power of using divine language (such as Pagel is uncovering). I mean, are Prayers that use "eternal" words more powerful, for instance?
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Olivia
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Post by Olivia on Dec 18, 2009 5:06:37 GMT -8
Jennifer, Mark is using the Swadesh List. These words have been recognized as eternal language before Mark's work but his deeper deconstruction of the words by refining them into layers of stability and longevity has absolutely been ground-breaking. Not unlike your insight into how the behavior of photons is a direct correlation to the physical manifestation of Celestials, so should Mark's linguist anthropology influence the spiritual lexicon and sacred texts of the Terrapyres. Whether or not their religion draws from written scripture, the undeniable power of eternal words would be present in spoken word. To further your reading, www.cognitionandculture.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=460&Itemid=34 and for anyone else who would like to begin at an entry level, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swadesh_listI'm very pleased that Summer brought your conversation to my attention. You've made some delightfully opportunistic connections between real science and the fictional Mardi Gras 3000 universe. Beautifully applied. Olivia |
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Cris
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Homidin: teh sc?o, teh torox, teh antha.
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Post by Cris on Dec 18, 2009 22:07:17 GMT -8
Olivia,
Welcome! How wonderful to find you here. The two articles are absolutely fascinating. Thank you for sharing them.
Cris
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Jennifer
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Post by Jennifer on Dec 19, 2009 3:22:29 GMT -8
Olivia, thank you for the new links ("CognitionandCulture.net is an incredible site) and your support of my new "keep fiction based in fact" campaign I am nothing if not delightfully opportunistic in all things. I think what interested me most in the information you shared was that different linguistic studies have pinpointed different words, or, at least, never broken down the two hundred words into as finely tuned categories as Pagel has. But even so, his "eternal five" seem to always appear near the top stable contenders if not the first five. |
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Crazy grrls both.