Original thoughts on a MG3K role-playing game

[Admin]

Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:12 pm

EJ wrote:

Hey all. This is a thread specifically for talking about that wonder of wonders... the mystical d20/OGL Mardi Gras 3000 rpg that hovers on the horizon about as elusive as the Grail. Got questions? Got ideas? Wanna help? Got some skills? (No, not those kind of skills.) Post here.

EJ

[Admin]

Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:45 pm

Sha wrote:

EJ, I am pleased to see the d20/OGL getting a second chance. Allow me to offer my services as a flavor fiction writer. I have taken the time to purchase a dozen or so rpgs from rpgnow dot com and found that a great number of them include "flavor text" as we were considering. I would be pleased to help illustrate the Terrapyres.

Sha

[Admin]

Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:21 pm

Pip wrote:

I'll help play-test, EJ. I've enjoyed the ccg play-testing and would like to help get a role-playing game off the ground.

Pip

[Admin]

Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:48 pm

papa nurgle wrote:

I would humbly suggest that if you are looking to create an RPG for MG3K, that instead of looking to work with the OGL liscensing (which I understand has halted with the release of 4th edition D&D) that you work to create your own rule system for an RPG. First, because you will have much more freedom to work the game as you want it and because you will not be subject to the whims of WOTC.

Many companies have halted their OGL work (Mongoose, Paizo Publishing, Goodman Games) due to the changing WOTC corporate outlook and they are not entering into agreements with WOTC for 4th due to heavy restictions in the liscensing agreement for it. Instead they are making modules that are compatible with 'any fantasy rpg' or are creating their own RPG for their Intellectual Properties. If you would like any advice or assistance in any of the above matters I would be glad to help in any way.

[Admin]

Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:06 pm

AreaneCreator wrote:

Hey Matthew,

I've recently been asked to spearhead this project, and am very interested in what you're saying here. I was under the understanding that D20 was the system that you licensed from WotC, while OGL (Open Gaming License) was open to the public to use without paying a fee? Hence, it wouldn't be licensed, just employed.

Is this correct? Want to make sure I have my facts straight.

[Admin]

Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:51 pm

papa nurgle wrote:

Yes the OGL or Open Gaming License was created so smaller companies could use the structural base of the D&D roleplaying game to base their games on. This was a nice idea to start with but it quickly created the RPG glut of 2000 to around 2003. Several larger independent gaming companies found that while the OGL allowed them a lot of leeway in creating new content for D&D or their own Intellectual Property, customers were quickly becoming confused by the overwhelming amount of product being created. This product was also spotty in its quality. From that many folks were not picking up any product with the D20/OGL branding and even some gave burnback on OGL products (people believed that if you had OGL on your product, you were not making quality product).

Now with the release of 4th edition of D&D (a very good reimagining of the IP), the D20 licensing has gone away and a new contract has come up. The OGL has been significantly altered from its original form and is now much more restrictive on what can be produced with it. This is because the heads of WOTC want publishers to be working with the current form of D&D instead of being nostalgic about 3.0. They want that positive cashflow from their IP and the more they can get directly into their coffers the better.

This has led to Paizo publishing (at one time the folks who were producing Dragon and Dungeon Magazines) to create a hybrid of D&D 3.0 which they are currently calling Beta 3.0. Goodman Games and Mongoose have walked away from their D20 product (it is now all out of print) and they have also not gone into any licensing with WOTC for the new 4.0. They instead are making modules and gaming folios that are compatible with 4.0 but have no 'offical' links with WOTC's IP.
Nowhere on the products are the words Dungeons & Dragons.

Of course this means that a lot of retailers are walking the line between carrying or not carrying product from these independent companies, even though they have created quality product for a long time. Because so many customers have moved on to 4.0, many retailers are not looking to carry OGL products at all or are very skeptical of such products. After all the 3.5 D&D books are no longer in print and have no way of garnering new audiences, so why push product created for an out of print game.

Now realize this information comes from discussions I have had with other retailers on various forums, at gaming conventions like Gen Con and Origins, and visiting other stores for resource sharing. I will be the first to tell you I am not an authority on RPG publishing, but I have had over a five years working for professional gaming companies (Games Workshop and Sabertooth Games) and almost a decade managing retail gaming outlets. I feel that the information I am giving you is very reliable and you should seriously reconsider OGL RPG creation.

With companies like Fantasy Flight Games, Margerate Weis Productions and Atlas Games creating great smaller run RPGs that sell well, you might just want to take the plunge and create your own rules set for MG3K. Yes it will take a bit longer and more playtesting than an OGL creation but the satisfaction you can get from such a product far outweighs the extra work. Take a look at such RPGs as Dark Heresy (from FFG), Serenity (Margerate Weis), All Flesh Must Be Eaten (Atlas Games), and even small run RPGs like 'Dogs in the Vineyard', 'Spirit of the Century', and 'Alpha/Omega' to see what micro press companies can do for an RPG.

I hope that helps and if there is anything else I can do just let me know.

[Admin]

Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:59 am

EJ wrote:

Ah, what a saddening turn of events that corporate mind set as muddied a decent open sharing policy Thank you for taking the time to share this, Matt. When we first explored the idea of an RPG, we were told by every single vendor we spoke to (time and time again!) that if it wasn't OGL (if it was an original OS) they wouldn't waste space and carry it because no players want to spend time learning a new system. But that was more than a year ago.

You talk about players moving on to the new version. What are your feelings about players approaching an original system? This idea (creating a system from scratch) doesn't daunt me, but designing an original OS only for players to throw up their hands and exclaim, "No time for anything but OGL/d20!" would be very disheartening. Do players shy from RPGs with original OSs? And what are your feelings on diceless play?

EJ

[Admin]

Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:17 pm

papa nurgle wrote:

I see many players today embracing systems that are not D20. The D100 percentile based games are very popular, with White Wolf's World of Darkness and Fantasy Flight Games Dark Heresy and Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay all getting good critical reviews and excitement from player groups. Margerate Weis Productions has created an entirely new set of rules that use all of the polyhedral dice to create various rolls. This unique OS is being used in the Battlestar Galactica, Serenity (Firefly), and other liscensed games they are working on. Atlas Games uses a polyhedral system for its All Flesh Must Be Eaten game rules. All of these RPGs, each with their own rules set, sell very well and have garnered some critical acclaim and player appreciation. Of course there is also GURPS, Hero system, Palladium and so many others. I am really shocked to read that the vendors that you talked to would not want anything but D20. All of the games I mentioned have been out for some time and all of them do well.
I think what draws gamers to certain RPGs is not necessarily the rules set or how the dice are rolled, but the story the game itself presents. With that in mind I think you have an excellent opprotunity to capture a unique portion of the gaming community with your IP. You have two equal factions and neither one is specifically 'bad'. You have humanity stuck in the middle and those who actively take sides. You also have great opprotunities for imdvidual Celestials and Terrapyres to join up against threats from humanity, demonic threats, and threats from other worlds. It really makes for exciting roleplay. You also allow for many different time lines to play in with Prime Time, the early years of the Celestial Terrapyre meetings, the eighteen and nineteen hundreds, etc. With all of that story to tell and the chance for rich rewarding gameplay, I think RPG fans would be very excited to try the game world no matter what OS it had.
You ask about diceless roleplayand I have to say I would be very hesitant to recommend it. There have been a few examples of outstanding diceless roleplay but those are few and far between. The only one I can think of is the Amber Diceless roleplay system. Many RPG fans want the ability to reach beyond their skills to occassionally have overwhelming success and to occassionally have overwhelming failures, and this is where the dice work. The addition of a little bit of random luck, takes a story and turns it into a game. I also have to admit that I have never had a customer come and ask me for a diceless RPG.
I hope these thoughts help you in your decisions and as always I am happy to assist in any way I can.